(Episode 134) Lab Coats and Lunch Boxes: Navigating a Research Career and Motherhood

Podcast announcer [: 00:00:04

Welcome to the Research Culture Uncovered podcast, where in every episode we explore what is Research Culture and what should it be? You'll hear thoughts and opinions from a range of contributors to help you change Research Culture into what you want it to be.

Ruth Winden [: 00:00:28

In this podcast episode, we are hearing from Dr. Hema Viswambharan, a senior scientist in cardiovascular and diabetes research at the University of Leeds. I'm Ruth Winden, the Careers with Research Consultant. Hema and I have known each other for many years and collaborated on a number of careers projects. We are both working parents and both of us always wanted a rewarding career and also have children. Over the years we've had many conversations about that constant juggling act of career and parenthood, even as our children get older and more independent. One conversation led to another and Hema was keen to share her lived experience as a researcher and a mother to stimulate debate. What is it really like to be a researcher and have children? What challenges have you faced and what challenges do you still face and how have you made things work? That's what Hema and I are going to talk about.

Ruth Winden [: 00:01:37

Welcome, Hema. I am so glad you're with me today.

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:01:41

Thank you, Ruth, for inviting me to share these experiences and I think it's really important for me to go forward and then really make a difference in the staff's life, especially scientists and also future scientists like the PGRs (Postgraduate Researchers). So thank you.

Ruth Winden [: 00:01:57

You are a role model in so many ways. So let's start with that first question. Can you take us back to the beginning of your career in science? What inspired you and what were your ambitions at the time?

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:02:10

Yeah, so my journey in science really began from my childhood. I was inspired by my parents themselves. They are brilliant teachers and a female scientist in her own respect, my mum. So my ambition has always been to make a difference in the scientific world and I was quite determined and eager and full of hope to build a future as an accomplished scientist. So it started with my A-levels. I finished that and started work as a teacher, then did my degree in genetics, went to Switzerland to do my PhD and around 20 years before, I moved from Switzerland to Leeds and joined Professor Mark Carney to work in this BHF (British Heart Foundation) funded project in cardiovascular and diabetes research. So that's how it all started. And I'm still ambitious and I was quite driven to make a living difference in the patients and the people alike.

Ruth Winden [: 00:03:11

Yeah. And you know, you are such an enthusiastic researcher and also so interested in all things careers and professional development. So, Hema, you had three children and we have conversations about this, you know, how has parenthood changed your career aspirations? Was there an impact on your career path and maybe even your identity as a scientist?

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:03:36

Yeah. So my baby was born. So I got married late, first of all, because I was so focused on my scientific career. Then I had three children quite closely together. So that has completely changed my direction. The focus shifted from lab work and academic goals to the immediate care of my children and all that is necessary to, you know, for them to perform at school, after school activities and all sorts of things that comes after. So my husband is also an academic at that point. So now he has established his career.

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:04:13

So we had to decide between ourselves that who is doing which part of the handling at home and at work. But I held on to my hopes and that willpower, the belief, the conviction that I had that I can do it. So it did change in the sense that I had to decide and keep my values in, you know, in, in perspective. I, it has to be clear. So my values is around being a responsible mother, a wife, and also to deliver in the project that I am paid for. So I had these three things in focus and I, that was what drives my day to day attention and day to day decision making process. So at each pregnancy I came, I took the maternity leave and I came back. So unlike these days, the maximum that I could take was six months.

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:05:09

So after six months I came back, joined back the research work. But the career break that I had to take is really the progression, the career progression, the, the traditional progression, from research fellow to senior research fellow, looking for fellowships, becoming a lecturer and academic and so on. So I had to stay and made an informed decision to stay as a research fellow, which was supported by my line manager because of my intention and holding on to the values to be a responsible mother, what is required at home and what is required at work and so on. So that was my career break. I had to put a complete full stop in my career progression physically. So that was the thing that I've done.

Ruth Winden [: 00:05:57

So Hema, you've been a working parent for almost 20 years. What were some of the biggest personal and professional challenges that you faced during that period?

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:06:07

Yeah, so all those years away from the traditional academic track, so I encountered a range of personal and professional challenges just because of my career momentum, but also the identity that I had to build as a scientist because recognition and being visible is important in science and I was in Switzerland at that point. So I often felt isolated, as I mentioned, since my days were centered around caregiving, while friends and colleagues continued to progress in their field. So I could only observe this. But the important thing at that point is I've learned from that. I kept learning, observed them and I've kept learning. Professionally, one major challenge was staying up to date with scientific advances and the technologies behind that. So the pace of change in research was so rapid that being out of the loop for so long, although you are in the lab but not in touch with the progression, was really very daunting. And I also lost touch with professional networks and collaboration because during my PhD I used to attend and present at international conferences.

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:07:18

Every year we had collaborative meetings and smaller seminars that wasn't happening and I tend to pass it on to other PhD students or postdocs to deliver on my behalf. So I was completely cut off in terms of networking and the collaborative network that we could build. So juggling family responsibilities was self, you know, partly self development is a constant balancing act. So I concentrated on the lab science and publications and also building the PGRs and the staffs within the group. And we held many little collaborations and my line manager always supported this. We had very frequent discussion about what needs to be done, what is required within the group. And I always ask himself if I could start a teaching hours per week. So I constantly made that as my motivation going forward for a better scientific future.

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:08:17

So I held that hope and motivations while keeping abreast with what I could do at the moment in the lab.

Ruth Winden [: 00:08:25

Yeah, and I know you're someone who's always been keen on her professional development and always engaged since I've known you here at Leeds, you know, always really engaged with us to, to learn and grow and, and yeah, develop obviously as a scientist, but also as, as a colleague. So Hema, you, you mentioned that you stayed connected. You know, you overcame that sense of isolation as, as a mother through university professional development programs. That's how we met each other and we've worked together on these. Can you tell us more about how you engage with these opportunities and what impact they had on your confidence and your skills? Because that seems to be, you know, in, in your message. You know that when you become a working mother, working parent, and you have to change the activities that you can take part in, you feel left out from things. You can't go to the conferences as much as before that that had an impact on your confidence. How did you, how did you set this all up and how did you make time for all this? Because you know, you had so much on at the time.

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:09:34

Yeah. So although I wasn't able to work full-time as a scientist that I hoped, I was determined to stay connected to my academic roots and I kept my skills sharp by taking advantage of the university's personal development program that was run by SDDU at that point now is OD&PL (Organisational development & Professional Learning) So these programs offered most importantly very flexible options: short workshops, online courses, seminars and that I could fit around my daily lab work. So for example, I have incubation periods and running an equipment for a certain length of time. So that is when I try to slot this in. So in one hour I could just dash over to Parkinson Court and come back and continue with the work. So every time was filled up and I used to listen to TED talks and motivational talks; that I tend to do when I'm cooking or cleaning or you know, the, the random mundane houseworks in between, for example.

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:10:35

So it just kept abreast by developing all sorts of skills that I could develop myself. That includes teaching, coaching and mentoring. For example, time management and the emotional intelligence was one of the things I was really hooked onto and I still do. And then on top of that I, you know, make sure that I delivered on all the requirements from my BHF funded projects and together we could go on and secure the next round of grants and supporting the students and the postdocs going forward. So the social aspect was really important. I engaged with a network of other workshop attendees. For example, we keep, keep up to date what, what, what they have done, how I have progressed and what I have learned. And from one technique of skill set we develop something else.

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:11:30

And I've also used to attend seminars from across the faculty. So when there is a seminar about biomedical engineering, for example, I would go all the way to engineering or food science and so on. So I kept up to date with what is going on across the university and not only in the research section, also the teaching and scholarship, but also the professional sectors as well.

Ruth Winden [: 00:12:00

And I'm glad that our flexible offerings really helped you with that. And yes, Hema is known across campus. You're one of the best networkers I know at the university, that's for sure. I mean even listening to you makes me think, wow, you know, so much to do. And there is something about also, you know this, the support you've had, you've been really proactive in that, haven't you? You, I know that you had many conversations with your line manager and, and do you want to tell us a little bit more about that? Because that's often the critical point, isn't it? You know, what support you get from your immediate line manager. And you have been very active in that regard and sought out conversations, haven't you?

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:12:42

Yes, I think one of the major learning from this journey is communication and network. So our line managers have got all sorts of responsibilities as going over 20 years. It can develop from a PI to right all the way to VC, for example. So it's important that you communicate your intention. And I made sure that he is always up to date on the personal part of myself and also in the professional. So he knows exactly where I am at every point in time. I update him with all the activities that I take part in. And also I use the staff review, for example, every single year.

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:13:28

And you make sure that your career progression or your challenges in life come across very clearly to him. So that has helped him to support me in, in the way that that is required. So that's what helped. So I also carved out time every single evening as a reflective time. So before bed I'll sit down and take note of what has happened through the day and I see where I have gone wrong or made different, differently, or how I can improve myself for the next day. Then I plan for the whole day that is coming up because time was crucial. I know I had to leave no matter what happens in the lab at a certain point in time. So I had to go back, pick up my kids, cook, and then do the taxi rounds of all sorts of activities between the three of them, sometimes even for my husband to cover.

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:14:29

So for that I had to take that time back every evening and then it become a routine and then it become quicker and quicker and I could do the self reflection, how I could improve and what other skills I need for the next round. So you know, for example, okay, I've done this skill set. Now I find this is missing because I've observed some other colleagues who has got that skill. Okay, how did you get that? And to my knowledge, ODPL has got almost everything we need. We just need to make that effort to find it and fit it into the day. But I don't say that it is easy. It was very difficult. And I know some of my colleagues say it's hard to get you into the coffee room for 10 minutes because you're either running for this course or that course.

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:15:21

But it was really worth it. So that's how I kept up with the relationship with the line manager so that we could get the best out of the research as well as the personal life.

Ruth Winden [: 00:15:31

Is there anything that made or would have made your return easier? Because I think that's often the crucial point is, you know, the going away, going on paternity leave, maternity leave and then coming back and finding your feet. Especially as you say, science is moving so fast.

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:15:47

Yeah.

Ruth Winden [: 00:15:48

And you know, the worry about, you know, am I up to date? What do I need to catch up on?

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:15:53

Yeah. So this mentoring and coaching has been so valuable in my journey back in academia. So what I got from there is the tailored empathetic guidance that acknowledges the unique challenges that we are facing coming back after a long career break. Now, when I say long career break, mine is a bit atypical because I've been there at the university. In timeline, there is no break. But in my career progression was a complete standstill up to last year when my third child has already progressed to secondary school. The eldest one is at the university and I thought now is my time and we have every provision given by the university at every level that we could tap in and make that, those decisions going forward. So the mentors that not only understand the academic landscape, so when we find the right match, you know, enduring our social life, we can see how it fits, you know, their journey to your. So they appreciate the complexities of balancing the family caregiving and the career ambitions.

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:17:04

So I had not only one, it depends at which point in time - I had several. So now I have another type of, or a set of mentors who is going to take me to the next stage. It is slow, but when you savour it, you understand every step of the way that the journey is a learning experience. And what is crucial that I find is that you have to take their advice on board and do it. Because most often during my own coaching and mentoring services, when I'm helping and advising other people, what I've noticed is they take the, the advice and then it stops there. Not deliberately. I know that because it is hard to make that, that decision to say, yes, I'm going to do this, but that was helpful so that to take their advice and take their experiences and put it into action in our own life. So they listen actively and they validate my experience.

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:18:08

They provide actionable steps how to go forward. And that is what made a difference in my life. To take that, that motivation or to take that confidence to progress even after 18 years.

Ruth Winden [: 00:18:24

I know, Hema, you were keen to talk more about your personal, your lived experience and the personal and emotional challenges of combining a career as a scientist and, and parenthood. And for you as a listener, you might wonder why are you not talking about the structural issues? Because there is the individual. But there's also, you know, what our employers are offering, you know, what is commonly offered in the sector. And for that conversation, I want to, yeah, point out that in a couple of weeks time, we're doing exactly that. We'll look at the structural issues of combining a career and parenthood because we're so lucky to have Elizabeth Faulkner and Cathel Rogers coming onto the podcast who have done their own research piece as parents into the provision of support. So I just wanted to make that clear. Hema and I, we have a lot of conversation about the structural challenges. But in this podcast episode I think we just wanted to see how do you deal with all of this on a personal level? And I really couldn't think of a better person than Hema to speak about it because she is so, you know, committed to exploring how, how you can cope, what, develop, you know, what coping strategies you can find and also, you know, what you need to do yourself to, to manage all this.

Ruth Winden [: 00:19:44

And as, as a parent who had similar struggles, you know, I understand, you know, we all have slightly different ways of dealing with these things. But Hema, you have some very clear ideas about how you still and have in the past dealt with these emotional and personal challenges. Do you want to tell us a bit more about that?

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:20:04

Yeah. So really the biggest challenges I faced when returning to my academic career as a career progression is really a mix of emotional and practical challenges. And when I say practical is really with reflecting about it myself. Like I said, when I do that in the evening on a daily basis, you begin to see what needs to be done. So emotionally, self doubt and the fear of not being able to catch up with my peers really weighed heavily on me and it still is in a way. So the long break made me question whether I still belong to the scientific community. Can I keep up with this rapid pace of research advancement? Now we have innovation and commercialization. That's another new avenue that I found out and it's really both exciting and actually quite opening up new doors as well.

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:20:58

But at the same time this, this feeling, can I do it? Can I not do it? Is that am I cut out for this, is still always there? So practically juggling family responsibilities, especially when my children, especially the eldest one, was born premature and that took a lot of emotional and headspace out from research, thinking this is more important. But I need to keep up doing my scientific career as well. So that, that was a really big drain. But reflecting it on a practical way, what can I do when managing the time and the child care and the access to the resources was difficult, but it didn't go without a strong support network. So I have the network when I say network with my husband, but mainly among friends and colleagues, you know, we, we talk and learn from each other and that was so crucial. So to overcome these barriers, I deliberately took small steps and I kept my dreams alive, imagining it. I'm also a positive coach, so, you know, motivational coach, if you wanted to say it. So that is what I apply to myself.

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:22:10

And you kept on with that belief. And I develop a routine. When you have routine as children, even they learn the best when you have routine. And we, we too as adults need to have some sort of routine. When we have that, the psychology behind it is that you know what's going to happen and you know what worked and that's where you slowly build that confidence and give yourself that time. I sought out mentors and coaches and Ruth, you are exceptional on that. So I owe you a big one.

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:22:43

Definitely. So that is what that kept me going. So understanding that situation and providing the encouragement and the practical advice. So the flexible working arrangement with the university, when they first launched it, I took it immediately. Discussed with my line manager, that helped as well. And that is where you get that routine between a balanced work life and a family life. So I never needed to take the work home because anyway, when I get home, there's no way of doing it. But it was like building a career after a break is like a marathon and not a sprint.

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:23:19

And I learned how to give myself that time to do it.

Ruth Winden [: 00:23:23

And also it helps: you are such an early bird, aren't you? When my oldest son was born and I would get up at 5 o' clock in the morning to do two hours of. And I got more done in those two hours before I got him up. And then I drove to the nursery and all the rest, you know. And looking back, I think, how on earth did I do this? But I was 28 years younger and somehow managed it. But it's often finding what is right for yourself. And for some, the thought of, oh my God, getting up that early is totally undoable and they will have their own ways. Hema, what is your advice for parents returning to work after a career break?

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:24:04

Yes. So anyone returning to academia after a significant break of any sort. When I said break, any sort at all, either, you know, academically or mentally, especially those who are balancing multiple responsibilities. The key advice is to really be patient and kind to yourself. Understand the strength and even your weaknesses. When I say weaknesses, maybe a lesser strength. So understand that returning is a process that really takes the time and that process may be slow at times, but it is a powerful teacher. The experiences are powerful teachers and it pushes us forward.

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:24:46

So it's crucial to actively seek out and take the advantages of the personal development opportunity to which is what we are all about at the university: training, workshop, courses, now we have LinkedIn Learning courses, we have Coursera. We have so much valuable resources. It's just fitting that time in and networking is so important. Like Ruth, I've learned this from you. And also part of the commercialization route. LinkedIn is so, so valuable. So we have to build that strong network, support, connection that's so important. Mentors or coaches or peers that understand that our unique challenges can offer different sort of guidance and encouragement.

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:25:33

So we say experience is something of a really good teacher, but we can't experience everything. We can learn from the others and learn what we should do and maybe learn what we shouldn't do. I think that's really important to understand and that will help us to keep that balance. You mentioned about me getting up early. You are getting up early, but then it goes back to routine. So once you set a routine, taking the time to find what routine fits you, it'll become so easy. And then you don't think, you just deliver it. That's when you begin to see the differences and your progress.

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:26:12

So most importantly, believe in the value that our experiences give outside academia. And those skills are developed during our break time. You know, when we take that break, the resilience, multitasking, problem solving, we do things without thinking and we do things without realizing actually we are good at it. And that is what give us, you know, the cutting edge where, you know, we can perform better than those who haven't taken that break. So keep your passion alive, set realistic goals. You celebrate small wins. I have my own way of celebrating small wins. And that's all something I do at the end of the day; rather than thinking what goes wrong, what I have achieved today, that's something I've learned from my mum.

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:26:58

She always say, go back and see one or two things that you have made a difference in somebody else's life. That's fantastic because success is different. For a baby, a success is maybe from crawling to walking or standing and it's different. We cannot compare. I don't judge and I don't compare. That's what would be making a meaningful and successful and fulfilling career forward.

Ruth Winden [: 00:27:22

I can so see what a coach you are and Hema and you're applying the coaching to yourself. I mean, what resonates with me is this, you know, be kind to yourself because I think one thing, and we won't go into this because otherwise it will be very long episode is, you know, dealing with guilt because you always feel when you're at that stage, that really frantic stage, the early years, you always feel like I'm not doing enough as a mother or parent and I'm not doing enough in my job, you know, and, and we are, you know, we do it all, but it feels different, doesn't it? And yeah, the being kind to yourself and for me it's also, we're all so different. For some of you, the thought of getting up so early as Hema and I, I do might be, might be really. Yeah, not the kind of thing that, that works for you. And, and that's absolutely fine. I think we all, you know, we experiment and we find, find ways of doing it. And for me, and that's the reason also why we wanted to have this on the podcast is the normalizing the conversations because you know, there are many colleagues who are parents and we're all, we're all loving it and we're also having challenges and we can learn from each other. And also knowing, even knowing, you know, I'm not the only one who's struggling with this or I'm not the only one who doesn't know what to do because that's the journey as a parent, isn't it? So thank you so much for being so open, Hema.

Ruth Winden [: 00:28:42

And I just wanted to ask you for, you know, your wisdom. If there was one tip you would give to other people thinking about having a family or people who are already parents and are straddling the career and the parenting piece, you know, is there one tip you can give people? What would make sense for them to consider?

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:29:05

So one thing I could suggest is, which I did, is really to find the like-minded people who's got a similar kind of experience. And when you talk to these people, especially those who have successfully come out to the other end, there's a lot of things that in the past that they would share with you and then you would reflect that upon yourself and you can see how I can apply in my life based on what they have done and imagining and keeping your goal clear and your values constant. And I think that would really take you across, you know, every step of the way, those small steps to come to the other side. So we need that support, that network and it doesn't have to be everybody that you meet. You would see and feel immediately who you latch onto. I mean, you are who you are with. We are like a combination of five people that you hang around with throughout the day. So even if there is something that you learn from other people with the lived experience of their own, and I think that would be a very, very powerful tool to take us across this, any sort of career break.

Ruth Winden [: 00:30:16

Thank you so much, Hema. And you know, we've had many conversations over the years and as our children have grown, we were also able to help each other out. And you know, and sometimes it's just having someone who can totally understand. We say, oh, today's a horrible day because it didn't start well, or I'm tired or I'm really worried about this, or, you know, and, and, and just knowing that there's someone there who understands and says, yeah, I get you, you know, I hear you and it's okay, and we'll get through this. So, Hema, thank you so much for giving me your time today. And just to reiterate, we're having another conversation about parenting and careers with Elizabeth Faulkner and Cathal Rogers coming up later in November 2025. And they have even published a research paper based on, on the inquiries they have made. And that will be another way that we can discuss.

Ruth Winden [: 00:31:11

Yeah. How do you manage your career and parenthood and what can institutions do to support you? So thank you very much and thank you, Hema.

Dr Hema Viswambharan [: 00:31:22

Thank you, Ruth. Real pleasure. Thank.

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