(S8E4) Role Models On Your Doorstep: Celebrating inspirational voices across the research community

Taryn Bell [: 00:00:24

Hello and welcome to Research Culture Uncovered. I'm Taryn Bell, Researcher Development Advisor at the University of Leeds. You'll have previously heard some of my episodes focusing on fellowships and funding, but today we're doing something a little bit different with a crossover episode. Today we're going to introduce you to another podcast at the role models on your doorstep podcast. This podcast has come out of a larger project called We Are Role Models, which is funded by Research England and which aims to showcase inspirational stories from colleagues from a wide range of backgrounds and at the University of Leeds. So I'm delighted to introduce the role models team. Jacki Willson, Marjorie Boissinot, Karen Tsui, Tao Zhang, and Marianne Talbot. So could you each start by briefly introducing yourself and your roles within the overall project? Jacki, I'll hand over to you.

Jacki Willson [: 00:01:19

My name is Jacki Willson. I'm an Associate Professor in Performance and Gender in the School of Performance and Cultural Industries and I am co-leading the project with Tao.

Tao Jiang [: 00:01:31

My name is Tao Jiang. I'm an Associate Professor of Marketing Practice. I work at Leeds University Business School. I'm the Business School's Director of Student Opportunity, Experience and Success. I'm also one of the Co-Chairs of Women at Leeds Network at the University. And as Jacki mentioned earlier, I'm the co-lead for this project.

Marjorie Boissinot [: 00:01:52

I'm Marjorie Boissinot, I am the Research, Culture and Development Advisor in the organizational development and Professional Learning department at the University of Leeds and I'm a member of the project team.

Karen Tsui [: 00:02:07

Hello everyone. I'm Karen Choi, Collaboration Development Manager for the White Rose University Consortium and I'm based in Leeds' Research and Innovation team. And I am privileged to be one of the guests being interviewed and I am hoping to be hosting an episode to interview others as well.

Marianne Talbot [: 00:02:28

And hello, I'm Marianne Talbot and I'm a final year PGR in the School of Education here at Leeds and my role in this project is to evaluate it.

Taryn Bell [: 00:02:39

Perfect. Excellent. Well, it's so lovely to have you all on Research Culture Uncovered. Jacki, could you tell us more about what the podcast focuses on?

Jacki Willson [: 00:02:47

Yes, it's Role Models on your Doorstep because you wanted to create a platform that we could share inspirational stories from colleagues across the university. As a team, we wanted to adopt an inclusive approach to role modeling that was relatable. Therefore, we kind of early on #'WARM emerged. So therefore, that was an acronym in terms of We Are Role Models. But it's also really the flavor of our project's focus, which is about being relatable, being approachable and within reach. So we wanted to include a wide range of cultural backgrounds, sexual orientations, roles and career stages. And in the podcast so far, we've undertaken seven interviews, which has included a diversity of voices. For instance, I've interviewed Rosa and Annetta, who are cleaners, and Rosa is from Spain, Annetta is from Poland.

Jacki Willson [: 00:03:46

I also interviewed Uma, who is a Teaching Fellow in the School of Education, and she has came over from Malaysia to do a PhD and was really, really happy to be given a permanent position. And we also have male voices, which I'm delighted about because Rob Kelsel interviewed one of our team about her experience. That was Karen Tsui, and she talked about her experience as a first generation immigrant and young mother and the kind of barriers that she faced. We also want to ensure an intersectional approach. And the final point really is wanting to raise the profile of the work that people tirelessly do across the university. And Tao had a really, really interesting interview with Clare Zupnik, and she sort of helps to support the welfare of undergraduate students. And she's done this, and since she was a year, two student of history at Leeds, and she's continued to do that, and she's now awarding for the largest, also residence of 971 students at Leeds. So we really kind of, her interview allows us to showcase the work she does, which maybe is unrecognized at this point.

Jacki Willson [: 00:05:04

So that really, I think raising the profile and showing these inspirational, intersectional stories.

Taryn Bell [: 00:05:10

That's wonderful to hear about. And I think it's really nice to hear about the diversity of voices that you're promoting at the university, which is, I think, often research, and the research community can often feel like quite a homogenous one. But at least we're quite lucky. We have a really diverse community. And so I think what you're doing is just wonderful in showcasing the myriad of people involved in the community, like you say, and thinking just beyond researchers themselves as well. Because often when we think about research culture, we think about researchers. But as we've spoken about in the podcast in previous episodes, there are so many people involved in the community beyond the researchers themselves. Marjorie, Jacki's talked a little bit about the purpose and the aims of the podcast, but from your perspective, you know, as our research culture guru, so to speak, how did you all come up with the idea for the podcast? What were its origins?

Marjorie Boissinot [: 00:06:02

This is something that for me, is wonderful. In my role, I started a series of webinar for people to share best practice around research culture, more largely workplace culture, if they wanted, in a rather informal space, to share new projects and learn from each other. So back in April 2023, we had a webinar. They're called best practice carousel. And I was very privileged to have Jacki Antao as co chair of the Women At Leeds Network, and Karen representing the White Rose Consortium as speakers who were each presenting the initiatives they had in their portfolio to empower and support the developers of women in higher education. And Marianne was there on the call. So all five of us, plus two other colleagues from the University of Leeds, we all exchange where our careers developed from our backgrounds. You couldn't pick seven more different women when it came from our ethnicity, background, our cultural background, caring responsibilities, careers and career changes and transitions that we've gone through.

Marjorie Boissinot [: 00:07:26

Yet what came out from that conversation was how we shared as women similar challenges and barriers in our professional development, and how our skills and other talents might always go, and efforts unrecognized or undervalued. We also reflected, as a result, on how we went through our own development with a paucity of role models we could relate to. We were discussing a funny mansion. I always like walking around campus and see those red banners with the very high profile alumni. It's fantastic to see for our reputation on the grand scale, but you don't really feel like you can go and talk to those people about how they went through their career and reach where they are now. So, as Jacki explained earlier in the people we have interviewed and the people we wanted to interview on that podcast, we wanted to see those role models that are on our doorstep, the people closer to us, the people we could be inspired by, share lessons learned with, share our experience, so that people don't have to go through the same challenges that we have at our university. And that started from that conversation in April at that webinar. And for that, I'd like to thank everyone on the team.

Marjorie Boissinot [: 00:08:44

It's been in my role professionally, it's been a really great outcome from that webinar series.

Taryn Bell [: 00:08:50

And obviously our listeners can't see this, but there's a lot of nodding and clapping. There's a lovely feel of kind of camaraderie. And I think, like you say, you know, we do have this wonderful banners around campus, but it is, it is nice to actually hear from those people, and hence the idea of role models on your doorstep. So, Karen, you are one of those role models, because not only have you been involved in setting up the project, but you've been interviewed for this series as well. So how has that been as an experience? And why is this such an important project from your perspective?

Karen Tsui [: 00:09:23

I truly believe that our backgrounds, our full selves as women, as human beings, this is our superpower. So once we are able to recognize and face our fear and to actually accept that we can contribute, we should be valued, we should be respected. It's very empowering. So what Marjorie has said, what Jacki has said is this project resonated so much that we need to be out there. We need to be speaking up and recognize those amazing women and the excellent work that they've been doing and we've been contributing. But a lot of time, I find it, especially in my own culture, that it's not the norm to be speaking up, to be standing up. And sometimes it's almost like that there is an inner critic as well. There's self doubt, and I have to overcome a lot of those sort of internal and external barriers to be able to put myself forward.

Karen Tsui [: 00:10:14

So the purpose of this project, I hope my colleagues will agree as well, is to empower women. We are role models, and at the same time, we are all role models. And that includes the audience and people who are listening to this podcast right now that recognize the excellent work that you're doing and be accepting to yourself that actually, however small that you might see that little things that you're doing, they can mean a lot to a lot of people. You just don't recognize it yet.

Taryn Bell [: 00:10:42

And tell from your perspective, as the other co chair of the project alongside Jacki, obviously this podcast has been a new experience for all of you. So has there been anything about the experience of developing a podcast or going through this project that has surprised you in particular or impressed you?

Tao Jiang [: 00:11:02

Yes, there are. And as Jacki mentioned earlier on, we have interviewed a diverse, very wide spectrum of colleagues, either from academics and or from professional service. What really impressed me is the passion from these colleagues. They're really passionate about what they do, and that passion really shows they firmly believe in the importance of the roles they're in. And what they do is they want to do their best to support colleagues and to support students and to do their best for the university. And another thing, and it's sort of not a surprise, but I've seen this common theme among the colleagues we interviewed is how determined they are in terms of they want to get things done. And let's face it, there are always challenges, difficulties, a bit hurdles there, big hurdles here, and you have to work around it. But the colleagues we spoke to, I interviewed some and Jacki and Karen, we all did.

Tao Jiang [: 00:12:14

And just listen to this colleague saying is, they don't give up. And when I asked them, you know, why are you doing that? And they just said, well, you know what? This is what I need to do. I need to do my best to support, you know, colleagues and students and for the university. So it's that sort of determination is really, really impressive. And each of us, and Karen put it beautifully. Each of of us, we're all role models in our own way, isn't it? And we all like shiny stars in the sky and we do our own things, isn't it? But just speaking and listening to this podcast and these colleagues, they're so humble. When I put the question to you, I said, wow, what you doing is really amazing. And their response was just, that's just my job.

Tao Jiang [: 00:13:03

I thought, everybody's doing it. It's just how humble they are. This. I'm very grateful we have the support from Research England and give us opportunity to do this podcast. And I think we need a platform such as this one to really let everybody shy and to really let the wider audience recognize how great we are individually in our own right. So I feel so privileged to be able to interview and also listen to the podcast to be part of this project.

Taryn Bell [: 00:13:37

Yeah, I think that brings me on to my next question for you, Marianne, because I feel like from a lot of the answers we've had so far, they've kind of given us these lovely, like, breadcrumbs of what's out there. But what I really want to hear is a little bit of a sneak peek. So would you be willing to share a memorable example from the podcast that you thought was particularly inspirational?

Marianne Talbot [: 00:13:57

I'm amazed at how rich and passionate the conversations have been. For example, interviewees talked about knowing where the boundaries are between work and the rest of their life. One said, as soon as I finish work, I completely switch off. And I think that's a great lesson for us all, isn't it? They also stressed the support of family in terms of self actualization, strong self belief, and their ability to stick to the plan or flex it as necessary. One of the interviewees said, my husband, he's my rock, and he reminded me that I left China to explore the world, and if you want to do it, you can. However, several of them mentioned being aware that they're not perfect, saying things like, I'm still not 100% sorted out and I want to have more courage, which really touched me. Challenges and barriers were perhaps talked out about a little less than expected, but generally in positive ways. I think because of the interviewees we've had saying things like there's a challenge, but at the same time there are opportunities all interviewees talked about learning from mentors.

Marianne Talbot [: 00:15:04

This is quite a long quote, but worth it. I think I had an excellent mentor. He truly inspired me to be a better scholar. He also said, in life you will always be knocked down. What's important is to pick yourself up. So that advice has stayed with me for the rest of my life. Several of them spoke about learning from adversity. My role was restructured during my maternity leave and I found myself falling through the cracks, but that gave me energy to do my work.

Marianne Talbot [: 00:15:34

Also, I never really had a role model, which is sad and I don't have other people to look up to. So I became that person, which I find really inspiring. All interviewees talked about their positive qualities. Like these ones, I'm proud of being me. I have many faults and flaws. I also have many good qualities. What you see is what you get. I think the most important thing is I'm really comfortable with my own skin.

Marianne Talbot [: 00:16:03

There was definitely a thread from the interviewees about being kind and compassionate and, as Tao said, determined and tenacious in quite a quiet way, I think. And finally, interviewees talk lots about the importance of team effort, that team spirit. They said things like, there are always people who are waiting to help. I feel well supported by colleagues right across the university. Interviewees talked about thinking about risks and opportunities in the short, medium and long term, and that their strategies might vary depending on the opportunity cost associated with that. So the conversations have been really rich and diverse, and I think tell us quite a lot about what it means to be role models here at Leeds.

Taryn Bell [: 00:16:51

Absolutely. And I think for me there are two things that come out from having listened to the podcast so far, is, as you say, that you don't need to be perfect to be a role model. I think when people think of a role model, they think of someone who has it all figured out. But I think that what comes out of this is that very few of us have it all figured out. I think something else that it attests to is just the wonderful sense of community that we have here at Leeds and the fact that a lot of these people are giving their time to talk about their experience and share that in a really very generous way. So I think that takes me onto my final question, Jacki, for you, as a team, what impact do you hope this podcast will have upon research culture, both at Leeds and beyond that?

Jacki Willson [: 00:17:32

Well, I suppose the first point is that it's important to be able to recognise yourself in the stories that you see and the voices that you hear. So we're hoping the podcast will enhance feelings of belonging, both in the relation to the colleagues that we've involved, in terms of participants who have been really appreciative of being able to share their stories. But we also hope that that will benefit the wider community in terms of sharing these stories. So, you know, research culture is multifaceted. It involves a whole complex web of roles. So we have cleaners, we have technicians, we have administrators, pgrs, international members of staff. So, you know, I think it's important to kind of raise the profile of all of those roles across university. And I think the impact that we're hoping for is increasing visibility of staff, both within schools, faculties and across the university, and raising the profile of underrepresented kind of characteristics, experiences, you know, and maybe the barriers that we face.

Jacki Willson [: 00:18:35

There's a lot in there about international students that have to wade through all this administration. And it would have been lovely for them to have been paired up with somebody who'd done this, you know, so that they would make life easier. So maybe our podcast can help towards removing some of those barriers. We hope the podcast also gives a richer perspective on our research culture, and I think also it could shed light on talent from colleagues. There's one cleana Rosa, who is a fantastic photographer when she was at home, and she's come to Leeds and she has now kind of done a few exhibitions of gardeners at the university and her colleagues within the cleaning team about this invisible labour. So perhaps we could raise the profile of her work and in doing that, raise the profile of the cleaners, the gardeners, you know, and all the work that they do too. So I suppose drawing on the name of your podcast series, I'd like. We'd like to kind of uncover all these talents and all these traits and qualities and stories of people that, and work that goes perhaps unseen and unrecognized and champion these people.

Jacki Willson [: 00:19:42

Maybe it would be great if our podcast can help to do that.

Taryn Bell [: 00:19:45

Absolutely. Yeah. So a perfect set of guests to be on Research Culture Uncovered. Absolutely. So thank you all so much for coming on to the podcast to tell us more about your podcast. If you're listening to this and you want to listen to the role models on your doorstep podcast you can find it now on YouTube. We will put a link to it in the show notes where we'll also put links to the profiles of all the role models team so you can have a look into all that they do and look upon them as your own role role models as well. If you'd like to get involved in the discussion, feel free to use #WARM - I'm sure the team would love to hear what you think of the project and of the podcast as a whole, but that's it for today.

Taryn Bell [: 00:20:28

Thank you so much for listening and we will see you next time. Bye!