(S9E8) Navigating Postgraduate Wellbeing: The Wellbeing Lounge at QUT

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[00:00:24] Tony: welcome to the Research Culture Uncovered podcast.

I'm Tony Bromley, one of your Host on this podcast. Uh, today we're going to be talking about postgraduate researchers. Um, and we are going to be talking to guests from Australia. And we're particularly talking about the wellbeing agenda and particularly some activity that's happening at QUT that we're going to go through. So I'm going to start by introducing the guests. We have three people today. So if I go to Tasha first, you just introduce yourself and say who you are.

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So yeah, I'm a language and learning educator, um, in the team, the GRED team, which is the graduate research education and development team, um, at QUT.

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[00:01:32] Kirsten: Hi, Tony. Um, my name is Kirsten Baird Bate. I was a PhD candidate, um, at QUT. So I worked, um, and did the wellbeing lounge with Tasha and Owen who's here tonight as well.

Um, I'm on Biripi country and I wish to acknowledge the Biripi people as the traditional owners of these lands. Um, and that's me.

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[00:01:59] Owen: Thanks for having me, Tony. It's exciting. Um, My name's Owen, I'm joining from Canberra, coming from Ngunnawal and Ngambri lands.

I'd like to acknowledge the Ngunnawal and Ngambri people as the Aboriginal owners of lands from where I'm joining, and that I'm gathered in, we're gathered in Australia on stolen land and that sovereignty was never ceded. Um, and yeah, my, my name's Owen, I already said that. I'm pretty nervous, I've never been on a podcast before.

I'm, uh, I'm lucky we're doing this on zoom. I had like an ungodly amount of garlic in my dinner. So it's fortunate that we're not all in the studio together.

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[00:02:39] Owen: I'm in Canberra in the, in the capital city in Australia.

And, um, and. And yeah, so I did my PhD at QUT and, um, I've worked in statistics and mental health and now I'm doing a postdoc in ecology and biodiversity. Excellent. Tasha, where are

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[00:03:00] Natasha: So I'm in Brisbane, and that's where QUT is based. Um, and Owen and Kirsten are students at QUT, but external, external students.

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[00:03:24] Tony: Excellent. So we've got multiple time differences, including me, of course, over in the UK. Um, I was going to go to Tasha now, just to explain, um, the relationship between the three of you for our listeners that will make more sense as to why we have three guests today.

So Tasha, what's the relationship between the three of you? Sorry.

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It's a writer's lounge and Kirsten and Owen were my attendees, my students at the lounge. And in fact, I said to you earlier before we started Kirsten. was with me from day dot the first, my very first lounge attendee and stayed, uh, stayed with me throughout her candidature. So, um, yeah, that's our relationship.

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So what's the lounge that you're talking about? What's the concept?

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So it became an online space and, um, in actual fact, I think, um, Because of the fact that when everybody moved online, um, this, this is what was attractive to Kirsten and Owen, especially I think as being external students. Um, but the, the lounge really, so as I mentioned, I, um, my role is the language and learning educator in the grant team.

And so really what I do is provide, uh, writing support to HDR students. And I guess there were a couple of reasons for creating the lounge and, um, The first one is, um, to connect students. So I guess everybody here and listening to your podcast knows that, um, HDRs are at a particular risk of depression and mental health problems because a lot of their research is done in isolation.

And so because of that. And also because I know students need to get words on paper, they need words written down. I had a concept of the lounge for making it a place to do focused writing, and then as the language educator I would walk through. Reflection on their writing in terms of the academic writing style and genre.

But another really big and important part of the lounge was the, um, the, the relating the connecting part. And that's where every lounge, I'd bring a topic of interest to, um, to the group. And I guess, Kirsten and Owen may talk more to that later but some of the topics that we discussed were. Things like imposter syndrome or, um, identity post PhD or burnout prevention.

Even supervisor relationships, um, you know, any, any topic and it was, it's very much a casual place and an opportunity. It's a, it's a safe, it was a safe place and space for everyone just to connect. And I think Kirsten and Owen actually developed quite a good friendship, um, coming, coming to the lounge with each other.

And then subsequently with me as well.

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whole process of the, of the PhD in Australia, then perhaps it can be something that obviously we worry about elsewhere, but it's kind of tagged on in other places. So is there a different approach, would you say to postgraduate research or higher degree research wellbeing in Australia as a whole? Do you think Tasha?

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And, uh, one of the guidelines that they have is, um, mental health and well being in graduate research education. And so at QUT, um, we have a health and well being strategy. And it's a holistic university wide approach to health and well being. And there's lots of initiatives, a broad range of initiatives for both students and staff.

But I think, um, I really don't know, I'm sure lots of other universities follow these guidelines. But yeah, I can only speak for QUT and I know, As well as the lounge in, in my team, we also have, um, a self paced module for our PGR HDR cohort. And so that's a module on resilience and things they, um, the students look at information on resilience to stress a resilient mindset, resilient habits, and that's all, um, tailored for, um, you know, for the HDR cohort, that unique cohort.

Um, just quickly, if I can also add, we also have a, um, a module, um, it's by our e grad school and it's called mental wellbeing for, for researchers. And it's actually moderated by a clinical psychologist and they look at, um, mental wellbeing in the real world. And there's, there's a practical component for when they create, um, they help students to create a self care plan.

So. That's what we do at QUT. Um, as I said, I can't speak for the other universities.

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Um, so if I come to Kirsten first. Well, What's your sort of general experience of well being in your studies and also perhaps the specifically the lounge? So kind of two questions there. Kirsten.

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Um, so I guess my understanding is very much filtered through that. Theoretical lens as well of really understanding well being as this multidimensional concept. So not just mental health and well being, but also social aspects of well being, relational well being, environmental well being, as well as this need for meaningful and fulfilling engagement.

And I guess that really aligns with my own personal experience of well being, which is this living life in a balanced way. Um, my experience as a HDR, I guess was influenced by the fact that one I'm a mother and two, I'm a mother of kids with some complex needs. And second, the other thing is I was an external student and just prior to PhD, we actually moved from Brisbane down to this, um, Coastal New South Wales, so about six hours away from campus.

So I had all those different aspects, I guess, to contend with, and those really influenced my undertaking of my candidature, as well as my well being, um, at different points in time. I really enjoyed the experience, um, I'm a self directed learner, so being external didn't necessarily worry me, but look, I certainly missed the synergy of being on campus and connecting in with people that actually understood, um, what it was like to be undertaking your PhD, um, and having that sense of relatedness, I guess.

I also found it tricky at times, I think, to balance family life and PhD, like life is always complex, family life is always complex and those things don't stop when you undertake a PhD.

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[00:12:43] Kirsten: my experience, I guess, is going to be different to those that don't have children. That possibly aren't remote, but I, I guess my overall experience, um, of wellbeing as a HDR candidate was influenced by those aspects.

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[00:13:08] Kirsten: Yeah, sure. So, um, as Tasha said, it really went online when COVID hit. And I guess COVID for me was beneficial in that there was lots of things happening on campus. And when COVID hit, Everything went online.

So I was able to then all of a sudden access all these different supports, which is I was like, I mean, I need some writing space. Um, so it provided me a space to connect in with campus. Um, so As Tasha said, can feel really isolating at times, but it was actually really nice to connect in once a week or once a fortnight, see some friendly faces and be able to relate to people that were on the same journey as me and provide, I guess, that normative framework around, um, the experience.

And the second aspect of that is that it really helps me to carve out an independent writing space of sitting down. We do 25 minute. Writing sprints or is it 20 minute writing sprints? Um, and so really developing a writing practice and, um, starting to carve that out. And I guess that was then able to move into, I'd start to do that independently in my own time.

So it supported my wellbeing in a number of different ways. And the fact that we're all here together, there were lasting friendships formed. By joining.

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[00:14:39] Natasha: something, Tony, before you go home, because I know you can edit this in.

I remember Kirsten saying to me, um, people in her family kept asking her, has she finished? How's your assignment going? And do you remember that Kirsten? And she would be like, oh, you know, thankfully I'm here with my peers and everybody knows what I'm actually doing.

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Don't ask me. It's going. Um, it's just coming to you now, Owen. Um, what's your experience generally of the wellbeing and, uh, in a moment, more specifically about the lounge itself?

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And I think that Tasha was quite self effacing in her response there. I think that, you know, it's down to Tasha and other individual advocates who have really pushed that agenda forwards to make well being a kind of holistic, proactive part of the agenda in looking after postgraduate researchers. I think that Tasha has massively pushed that forward and championed that initiative.

And, you know, she says, Oh, it's a QUT strategy, but hidden behind that is so much of her taking the initiative and creating this, you know, creative original space and the integrated and wellbeing into these programs and showing people that it should be done in that proactive way. Um, I think that she's really championed that and driven that forward.

So it's not just something that has happened in the background at QUT.

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[00:16:13] Owen: Um, but yeah, so to talk to my own experience of mental health and then about the lounge a little bit. So, um, my interest in well being comes a lot from my own lived experience of having mental health challenges. So I've managed lived experience of depression, anxiety for a long time.

Probably more than a decade I've been, whatever, seeking professional support and putting measures in place to manage those things. And that drew up my own experience, drove my interest to study psychology as an undergraduate. And then in my PhD, I was working in the area of youth, mental health and, and methods to, to analyze that sort of data.

Um, and. Yeah, I think definitely the context of the pandemic was a big driver that, uh, intensified mental health challenges for myself and a lot of my peers. I think that, um, you know, I, for me personally, in terms of timing, I started my PhD, and then three weeks later, Australia went into its first lockdown.

So I just moved to Brisbane, and then I moved back to Canberra three weeks later, and all of a sudden I was It's in my kitchen with three other housemates, all trying to work from home with no other HDRs around. So when I first went along to one of these sessions, I can't exactly remember the timing of when that would have been, but when I first went along, it just felt like such a godsend to, um, have that space to do focused writing and to have a space to connect with other HDRs and talk about wellbeing stuff.

So yeah, I think for me, there's, there's two real. Um, kind of pain points for HDRs that Tasha really nailed when she set up the premise for this lounge. Um, the first of which, which is quite common at a lot of units is to have something like a shut up and write or a write to write intensive focused writing session.

I think that's obviously helping with things like Performance anxiety and perfectionism and procrastination. And those are quite standard, I think, obstacles which HDRs face. But having that sense of solidarity and community to do focused work together, for me, really helps to, um, you know, it was inevitably whenever I went to work, to the lounge.

It was the most productive two hours of my whole week. Like I got more done in that two hours than I did in the rest of the week put together in terms of writing output. So that part of it was really important for me to, for me to just kind of get past that blockage around writing and getting words on the page.

Um, but more importantly, or not more importantly, equally as important, I think is the, the wellbeing element. And so Branding the event in terms of it being a space for people to talk about well being as you arrived in the lounge or just, I think often like the day of Tasha, you would send out the article for us to review beforehand.

And it's like, just to kind of get you thinking you'd have an article about, you know, as you said, things like supervisor relationships or, you know, anxiety around writing or burnout prevention and then to have that space. So the, I don't know if we've spoken about the time structure, but we'll do this for half hour blocks.

So the first and second are writing sprints. And the fourth one is a writing sprint, but in the third one, it's just having a cup of tea and chatting about what the, whatever the wellbeing topic is. So Tasha would introduce this article. We'd spend five minutes going through it. And then I thought a really cool part of it that you did as well, Tasha was.

Stepping out of the lounge virtually. And I, I don't know how this works in, in the physical setting, but in zoom, putting us in a breakout room so that it was only students talking to one another. Um, and so we kind of had this safe, moderated space and if we needed to, we could leave the breakout room to chat to Tasha separately, but then there would be this space of just research students talking to one another without moderation or feeling watched sort of thing.

And just being able to talk to one another. And that was such a. Such a powerful space, I think, to get a sense of like normalizing mental health and feeling like giving each other a sense of permission to talk about mental health as part of business as usual and, you know, share ideas with one another about what we found challenging and like, all right, you know, it helps so much just to hear if someone else is finding something stressful or, you know, feeling overwhelmed in the same way that you are really helped to feel less isolated, especially when we were all working remotely and stuck at home during the pandemic.

Anyway, that's a bit of a, I've crapped on a bit, a bit of a tirade, but yeah, that, that's, that's certainly

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I wondered if perhaps we'll come back to Kirsten and I'll come back to Owen and then I'll let you, Tasha, probably have the final word. I just wonder Kirsten, from your experiences doing the well being, have you got any more sort of a general tips for perhaps people who are doing their PhD at the moment and might be concerned about the well being and the, you know, problems with writing and other things that you mentioned?

So is there anything advice you might give a fellow? a person, well, you've, you've been on your PhD now, but a fellow, fellow PhD person, and also perhaps anything that you think universities from the good practice that you've experienced, but in, in general, what you think universities might, might want to look at or might want to do.

So the personal PhD person, and then perhaps the broader picture, I'll ask, I'll ask Owen the same in a second. So Kirsten, what do you think?

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And as well as having that productive space set up and finding practices to help you manage your time, help you manage your productivity and ensure that you're connecting in. So I come from, um, An education background, inclusive education, and we're always talking about connectedness as this seat of well being and academic learning outcomes, and I think that's such a key thing that can translate in this tertiary or, um, university space is that focusing on connectedness in whatever way, shape or form that looks like, um, But particularly in terms of because we are seeing more and more students move online and work remotely and life is becoming more and more complex.

So I think it's this model that Tasha has established is really timely because it does help to promote connectedness. It does help to overcome many of the barriers that we're facing or HDRs or PhD students, I should say, are facing and will continue to face into the future too.

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I was going to come to Owen to say, did you have anything to add in terms of that, that personal, uh, PhD experience of what you might, um, recommend for other PhD people, but also the wider university sort of, um, what universities should be doing?

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One of those would be If you think you could benefit from it, even a little bit, go and seek professional support, like most universities will have freely available student counseling, I was able to access it through my university and also as a staff member at my uni, there was a separate organization through which I was able to get quick sessions, quick appointments, do it all online.

And I would say if you think about counseling, don't give up if you get put with someone who you don't like the first time like shop around and don't settle for a crappy counselor who you don't like like just because you have one bad experience doesn't mean you should give up on it shop around and find someone you really like and have a good rapport with.

But really, I think you that. You know, a wider, you know, the rate of mental health difficulties among HDR cohorts is really high as Tasha has raised and that's unsurprising given the pressure and isolation and the kind of sort of personality types who select themselves into that path. So I think really encourage HDR students to think about seeking professional support and, and, you know, access the resources that are there.

Um, and then the other part would be to try and have more conversations about mental health with your peers and with your friends. Um, I think that that was one of the biggest benefits of the lounge for me is creating relationships and friendships with people like Kirsten and other regulars of the lounge and also through other, um, postgraduate research, uh, well being initiatives that I was involved in a lot of it, a lot of the benefit of that just came around having a sense of normality and, and kind of having the vocabulary to talk about mental health in a comfortable way.

Um, and I think, you know, role modeling that comfortableness as well is really valuable. I think there's a real positive contagion effect that can go through, um, the community of researchers if If you normalize talking about your own mental health in a comfortable way and what you find helpful and hearing from other people, what their experiences are, that that can really snowball in a positive way to, to kind of make a more resilient community overall.

And I think related to that on the question of what I think university sector should be doing, I think it, they should be like Tasha has done with this initiative, really. put the power and the voice in the student body, like try and enable advocates and representatives among your student body to be telling you as a, as a pathway from the student body, what they need and what's helping them and what are the things that they're missing, and really try and as much as possible, enable and empower.

Students to kind of guide their own experience and I think that was a real strength of this initiative that Tasha has set up is making it about students connecting to one another and encouraging them to develop and build their own voice and their own confidence in that domain. Yeah, and I think you know the QUT has done a great job over the last few years of really making that part of the agenda more as a priority like having that.

proactive, um, well being strategy. I think that too often well being is thought of as like a reactive thing that it's like, wait until the shit hits the fan. And then that's when you go and seek emergency support. But it's like, you're going to be so much better off investing in boosting and upskilling and kind of inoculating your student population to get them talking about mental well being before they're in crisis.

I think that that's going to really Pay dividends to invest in that sort of strategy. Yeah,

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And I'm just wondering what's happening next. I presume that you're continuing this initiative yourself. Is it going across the university or across universities? Are there similar initiatives you're aware of? What's the future hold?

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I'm actually making the, um, it a longer time frame. It was just a two hour block. I'm extending it to a half day block just so the momentum, especially in the focused writing part isn't lost, you know, making it longer. But actually, Owen and I are talking about, um, creating some. Uh, resource pack. Is that our title, Rowan?

Is that what we're calling it?

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[00:27:32] Natasha: And yeah, we're hoping, um, it'll spread. We're hoping that others will, um, like this idea and see the benefits, um, and spreading it far and wide, I guess. That's, that's the hope.

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[00:27:50] Tony: sorry, Tony.

No, it's okay. Carry on Owen, carry on.

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And I think that. But I should to tell the story about how many people this is reached and how impactful it has been. I think it'd be really cool to enable other people to take this and run with it, because it's been so valuable for me and I know for many others.

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[00:28:26] Tony: No, carry on. No, carry on. Carry on.

I'm not meant to speak.

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sit in each other's company. We'll see. We'll see how that goes. But I think that could be, um, because that was the original intention. And, you know, I think people have missed that. Everyone's missed sitting in each other's company. So, um, that that's the next iteration of the lounge. And I'll let you know.

How it turns out.

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[00:29:21] Natasha: Well, that, yeah, that's why we called it the lounge. I wanted it to be, I wanted a sense of, um, you know, uh, what's the word, Kirsten, that you used in your research? Home Ho a, a place. What did you use in your research?

It was a, um,

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[00:29:43] Natasha: home, not homelessness. What was it? The having a place. Placelessness.

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[00:29:50] Natasha: So there isn't a sense of placelessness. We want, we want to create a place, and whether that's online, face-to-face, you know. Um, whatever, whatever suits the particular cohort, but really still hoping to reach external students, um, like Kirsten and Olin.

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